Rising Strong: How Resilience and Empowerment Shape Our Lives

lesa koski: 00:00:01

Welcome listeners to saddle up live.

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I'm super excited for you to meet

Michelle Lyson, this is the woman who

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came in and rode her white horse and

Helped me out when I was going through

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a really hard time and I The thing

that was so amazing about Michelle, I

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didn't even really know her that well.

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I knew that she had gone to law school,

was a financial, analyst or planner.

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she's gonna clarify that when we talk.

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And I knew that she did mediations

because she took my course, which I

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love, to become a better mediator.

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So I knew that, and I knew her style,

I reached out to her when I had, I

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think I had like five or six clients

that I was working on when they caught

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that breast cancer at stage one.

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And even though it was early, it

was a lot to go through and I needed

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someone to come in and Michelle, I

mean, Like a saint, I can't even,

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she came in, she didn't get paid.

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She came swooped in and finished

up all those clients beautifully.

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And now we work together.

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I mean, that's what I love.

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I love that.

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But what's so fun is Michelle

was on doing divorce different.

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And I feel like I, through this podcast,

I get to know Michelle a little bit

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better because things have been so

crazy that I didn't even really get to

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know aspects of her and she's so cute.

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She, she's a little guarded

because she went through a

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really hard divorce, which I get.

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And so we're not going to talk

about anything uncomfortable.

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I want you to be empowered by Michelle

because she went through something really

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hard and has turned your life around

and she's so positive and so giving.

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And I always know, I've

learned this from Tony Robbins.

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It's the people that give.

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That are the most successful in my mind.

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And that's why I just see her

world opening up to her, because

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she is so willing to give.

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So if you want to hear more

about her advice on if you're

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going through a divorce, go to

doing divorce different today.

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I just want to talk to Michelle a

little bit about how she kind of made

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it through something really hard.

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And I'm telling you, I had no idea.

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I just found out that Michelle's divorce.

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It was over 120, 000 total.

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So that's why Michelle

and I do the work we do.

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So Michelle, welcome.

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Say hello.

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Welcome to Saddle Up Live.

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So can you share your story a

little bit about like, so your

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divorce was over several years.

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I know that.

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What was it like up until that point?

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I mean, I'm sure the decision was hard

because I know you are someone that thinks

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really highly of marriage because we've

talked about that and listeners, you know,

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that I say, I mean, like for three months,

put everything you can into the marriage,

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into that person, work on yourself because

a lot of times if you work on yourself,

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the other person magically changes, right?

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Yeah, not always.

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And in Michelle's case

that that wasn't the case.

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so you needed to go through this.

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And I think that Michelle, like

all of us are, she was probably

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her main concern was her kids.

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I don't know, was it finances too?

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Mine would be finances and kids.

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So can you just tell us a little bit

about that to help us see how you went

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through something hard and your life?

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Blossomed.

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Michelle Leisen: Thank you.

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So, I would say, going through

the process at the time, you feel

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stuck at the time you think, should

I stay together for the kids?

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should we be together for that reason?

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And it doesn't feel like it at the

time, but you're actually, doing

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your kids a disservice by just

staying together for the kids.

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lesa koski: Cause

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Michelle Leisen: you

know, they see you better.

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And you know, my ex husband is better.

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In his life.

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Now I'm better in my life.

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Now, my kids are better in their life now.

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And I think it's important to see that.

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Yes, it's hard, but you will get through

it and them, your kids are resilient

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and they see the new you, so to speak,

and they see how you work through hard

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times and it's kind of inspiring in a

way to have your kids, to have people

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around you see how you morph and change

through the process, but it's hard.

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I won't downplay that at all.

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I mean, you're up at two

in the morning Googling.

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Should I stay in the house?

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If I don't stay in the house, am I

giving up my rights to the house?

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and the more you Google, as you know,

especially with health issues, the

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more you get confused in the process.

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So it was hard.

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lesa koski: Yeah.

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Well, and then I have to

ask you, I can't remember.

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I think most people think about

divorcing for a few years.

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Were you in that?

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Cause you were married 28 years, right?

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Michelle Leisen: Yeah.

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We were together 28 years.

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We were married.

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Oh gosh.

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How long were we married?

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17 years.

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So yeah, we were together a while before

we married and yes, I would say, we were

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probably seven, eight years past our prime

of when we probably should have gotten

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divorced, but we were both determined to

make it work and we both tried to fight

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through something that it ultimately.

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You know, was it meant to be,

which was hard because, you know,

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we're both religious people.

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So I didn't believe in divorce.

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I thought you marry and you

marry for the rest of your life.

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So that was a hard aspect, for both of us.

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lesa koski: I think that's a really

hard aspect for a lot of my listeners

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and I too, I'm a strong Christian

and I always wrestled with how

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can I be helping people divorce?

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When I believe in marriage, but it's

the thing of, there are some reasons.

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Where you need to.

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So how did you finally

come to peace with that?

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Michelle Leisen: I think it was

a lot of, honestly, a lot of

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therapy, a lot of self care.

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my kids would laugh because I,

they'd come home from school and

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I'd be on another call of, you

know, I went through divorce care.

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I went through group therapy,

individual therapy, and just

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spending time working on myself and

understanding that that self care.

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You know, you think, especially as a, as

a working mom, right, we think that we

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should be able to do it all, take care

of our kids, take care of the house, take

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care of, you know, be successful at work.

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And we never stopped

and put ourselves first.

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And I kind of had that martyr mentality.

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as I was going through the divorce

process, it's like, no, it is important.

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To go take a bath or go for a walk or

whatever, go to the gym or whatever it

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is you need to take time for yourself.

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And it's not that you're taking time

away from your kids when you do that.

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It's that you are being better for them.

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And I guess I didn't really before

divorce grasp that very well.

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lesa koski: I love that you learned that

because I think a lot of people miss that.

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So what a blessing that you were able to

do that because like you said, I mean,

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maybe it's taken a little time away from

your kids, but it's making it so that

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you're better when you're with them.

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And it's radical self care when you

are going through something hard.

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Sometimes you just have

to sit and be sad, right?

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Michelle Leisen: Yes.

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lesa koski: but I only give

myself so long for that.

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And then you gotta, Make a decision to

you can sit there and be sad or you can

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Take care of yourself and move forward.

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and it's hard, like you said, and I'm

glad that you said that too, because

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I don't think everybody understands

how hard it is to get divorced.

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And by golly, if you're getting

married, be really darn sure.

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'cause I feel blessed and

like I lucked out because and,

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but we did, it's interesting.

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we did go through marriage classes.

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before we got married and the priest.

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had told us this is one thing that

there were a couple of things that

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really stuck, but he said couples

that pray together on a daily basis

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have a 2 percent divorce rate.

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Wow.

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Isn't that a wow.

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And I think it's, yeah,

I think that's similar.

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So hold on to that.

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start out on that foot.

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That's one thing I would say.

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so you were doing your self care just

like I did my self care when I was

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going through my hard thing and it

still was hard, so it was hard, but

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it made it better and it made you

healthy, which wouldn't, and then when

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I talk about self care, I'm like, eat

well, exercise, that's my self care.

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It's not just like.

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Going to get your hair done.

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It's Taking care, loving myself enough.

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My gosh, Michelle, before I had this

stage one thing, I don't even think I

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ever took time to put lotion on my body

and then they're like, you might get dry

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skin from the, you know, so I like, so

then I started, I'm like, I don't, they

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never even took, I was in such a rush.

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I couldn't even put lotion on

my, I mean, as women were nuts

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that way, give yourself a break.

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And I'm talking about if you're home

with your kiddos and you're not going

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through a divorce, take care of yourself.

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This applies to anything.

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And especially you figure it out

when you go through something hard, I

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think, but try to do it before you go

through something hard because think

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of how much more joyful you could be.

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Michelle Leisen: Yes.

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lesa koski: Yes, Exactly.

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Okay.

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So you did those things.

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I have to ask you, so

you're like a working woman.

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You're smart.

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Did you have a big career so that

you were maybe not as afraid of

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the financial aspect of divorce?

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Yep.

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Michelle Leisen: So I've been a

financial advisor since: 1998

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I actually own my own financial

planning firm, which I still do.

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So I was busy, I was a working mom.

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I worked a lot of hours and that

ultimately also plays a part in

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the demise of a marriage when you

don't develop that time together

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and going on dates with each other.

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And I think it's important and really

trying and giving it a hundred percent.

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Before you make those decisions, I think

is important and any couple that I meet

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with or talk to, I want to make sure,

you know, have you done everything?

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do you need a divorce coach?

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Do you need a marriage and family

therapist to maybe help you consider

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your options and figure out what's

best for you and your family?

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lesa koski: Yeah, I like that.

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And I do want to add that that is one of

the services that I have, which I don't

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really talk about a lot unless you sign

up for a consult with me and people kind

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of roll their eyes because I'm like,

are you sure you want to get divorced?

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Because I do, and I'm actually creating

a course for this for marital mediation.

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the first piece of it is going

to be how to communicate.

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And then the second piece

is going to be mindset.

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what I'm hoping is it's

kind of the last straw.

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If people want to try, if they're

willing to work on that piece.

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once you've done everything, I think

you can have a little more peace?

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Cause you were getting therapy,

you were doing all the things and

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your, your marriage couldn't work.

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It couldn't, and we don't need to

talk about why it couldn't work.

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It just, you know, you were

right with God, you were right.

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What you knew what you needed to do.

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And so then you had to move forward.

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And so, were you able to keep doing

the self care the whole way through?

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Cause you were in court.

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It was scary.

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Yeah.

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Michelle Leisen: Yeah.

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It was hard, but it had to be done.

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I mean, I don't think I would have

survived if I had it because you're just

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going through all the things and you're,

you're going through divorce fog where

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you just don't know what you're doing

and you're afraid to make decisions

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and you don't know what you don't know.

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So you have to be doing those things

in order to take care of yourself.

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lesa koski: Yeah.

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And get that and get your mindset right.

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And I would just say I have in the

show notes, I'm going to put, little

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link to a podcast because I do, I do

think getting control of that mindset

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because I am someone who can tend

to spin out and, which my listeners

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know there are times in my life.

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Where I've been on anxiety meds and

I, I am now, and I'm hoping to go

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off them after this has been a year.

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My head does that and even

with the coaching and the

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working through the mindset.

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So that's where it's good to have

that, you know, we talk about a team

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in divorce, but even just your, your

doctor, you know, just to let them know,

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that this is a bit of a struggle and

it doesn't mean it has to be forever.

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and you know, and there are things you

can do, but if you can work on that

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mindset piece so that you don't have to

suffer as much, I think that's the thing.

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I think what I have learned

is how to suffer less.

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I used to worry and worry and

worry and worry and spin out

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and spin out and now I go.

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I don't need to.

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I have a whole podcast on that.

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Um, so people can listen.

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I don't need to go into all

the detail, but I think that

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that is really helpful too.

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So tell me, Michelle, how long

has it been now since you've been

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Michelle Leisen: divorced?

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it's going on three years now.

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lesa koski: so it took

three years to divorce.

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And that's why, yes, she does talk

about the power of three friends.

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If you go to doing divorce different,

she's just a great resource for people

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who are going through this and we'll have

your contact information in the show notes

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So if people want, you know, if they need

your help, it's, I think it's really nice

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to go to someone who's been through it.

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and I know on doing divorce different.

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I talk about how when we go through

something hard, it's an opportunity.

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It's a gift.

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And I didn't tell you I

was going to ask you this.

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So if I'm putting you on the spot, you

just tell me, can you tell me if you can

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think of gifts that have come from this?

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Michelle Leisen: Well,

can I, I'll go ahead.

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lesa koski: No, you go.

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Michelle Leisen: Gifts

that have come from this.

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I would say appreciating life.

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it's okay to be vulnerable.

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It's okay to reach out when you need help.

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It's okay to take care of yourself.

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And spending time with your kids

and appreciating them and learning

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what your new norm is, right?

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Because in my head, I think a lot

of it was, I imagined what it was

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supposed to be like, and then in my

head, it was supposed to be this way,

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and it's not going to be that way.

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So now what is the new way look like?

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And is it better?

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And you know, you don't know

that going in, but it's so

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much better on the other side.

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And I tell people that constantly

as they're going through

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mediation, that I know it's hard.

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And sometimes you have to get stuck

in the muck for a while and work it

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out, but you will get there and it

doesn't feel like it, but you will be

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better as long as you take time for

yourself and you do what's important.

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lesa koski: Tell me what's better.

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Is it like your stress level?

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Is it, I know even some people

who are so terrified to be in

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charge of their own finances.

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find how wonderful it is to be able

to make the decisions themselves.

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But tell me, how is it

better for you, Michelle?

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Michelle Leisen: So I would say to your

point, that's very empowering, right.

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And realizing that you can

do those things yourselves.

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Um, I don't know.

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That's hard for me to answer.

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Cause I feel like I was a very

strong, independent woman before.

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The divorce.

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So continuing to be that

strong and independent woman

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and role model for my kids.

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And I just feel the strong pull of

God in the universe to do things

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a better way and leave a mark.

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On society and help people.

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And it sounds cheesy and corny,

I know, but it's really the, and

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things have just fallen into place.

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Like meeting you.

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And that just was like a random

act of God of like, okay, how

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I met this wonderful woman.

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And I remember looking at your website,

um, and going, oh, wow, she seems

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really, she seems like someone I aspire

to be like, and I never told you that.

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But, you know, just those random

things that just fall into place

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because you're doing the right

thing, because you're taking care

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of yourself, I think are crucial.

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lesa koski: Yeah.

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I love that.

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You're so sweet.

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And I just think what I love is

that, yes, there's a lot of strong,

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independent women who go through

something hard and become a victim.

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And what I love, Michelle,

is I'm, I've watched you.

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You went through those hard circumstances

and you remained that strong.

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You didn't, it didn't get you down.

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And I also, I think another really, I

mean, it's so wonderful cause now you're

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out there helping people, but you also

have shown your children how strong

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you are and how important that is.

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Do you have a daughter and a son?

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Am I right?

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So I mean, think about for your daughter

to see that for your son to know that

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for his future, for them to be able to

really assess when they get married.

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And it sounds like with your ex

spouse, things are going fine and

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that now your kids get to see that.

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And so you can just continue to show the

world through what you've been through.

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And that's why I just love you.

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So I'm so thankful.

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Michelle Leisen: And the joys of an

extended family, like you don't think

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that going in, but you know, my ex is

remarried and having a step parent,

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what that's like for my kids, I think.

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So what the new norm of holidays

that are potentially coming up

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or already expired, depending on

when we do it and kind of what.

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a bonus parent looks like, what

a extended family looks like.

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So I think those can be

things to embrace and that are

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beneficial in the long run too.

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lesa koski: So I love that you say

that because step parenting is like

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one of the hardest things, which I

mean, that's for, that's for another

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episode, but look at you putting

that positive spin just like you do.

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So that's why I know that's

why I'm drawn to you and my

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people love to work with you.

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So Michelle, thank you so much for taking

the time to be on Saddle Up Live and

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letting my audience get to know you.

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Michelle Leisen: Thank you for having me.

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I really appreciate it, Lisa.

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lesa koski: All right.

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You take good care.

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Michelle Leisen: Okay.

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Bye bye.

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lesa koski: Bye.