Financial Freedom: Navigating Life's Transitions with Victoria Kirilloff

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Welcome listeners.

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I am very excited to have you here today.

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I have the beautiful Victoria Koff

with me, and I have to let you know.

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I don't care if you're

getting divorced or not.

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You need to go to doing divorce

different and listen to the podcast

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that we just did because it was

so enlightening and Victoria.

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shared her truly authentic,

heartfelt story to help women.

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And I'm touched and honored

that she spoke about it.

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And I think it's going to save lives.

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I, and then I'm not kidding, Victoria.

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So thank you for that.

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And it was completely unexpected.

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So I just, I love that.

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And I love this woman

sitting here in front of me.

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And the reason that I wanted Victoria

on Saddle Up Live is because.

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I see her as such a strong woman

and she's so good with finances.

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She's a financial expert.

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You can have all her

information in the show notes.

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And like I said, you can listen

to doing divorce different.

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She helps people through life transitions.

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And I feel like getting older

is just a life transition.

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I want to be more financially savvy.

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And I feel like a lot of women, I

mean, I have a lot of friends who like.

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They don't even know what's

going on with the finances.

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Well, ladies, why not?

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I have shied away from it.

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And suddenly I'm starting to get my

toe wet and I want to look at it.

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I want to understand it better.

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And my husband wants me to, he wants

me to help him and support him.

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So Victoria, I feel like I

remember, like, I loved you.

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I was so drawn to you.

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You have this horse story.

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We both love horses.

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And you had a cute story that made

me fall in love with your dad.

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And how we raised you.

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Can you share that?

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Because I think it's telling, and I

think it's probably why you're so good

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with finances and not afraid of them.

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And that doesn't mean that,

you know, an old grandma dog

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can't learn something from it.

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So can you, can you share that story?

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Yeah, it was my pleasure.

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I am standing on the shoulders

of a giant and, uh, my father,

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man, he was Ahead of his time.

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And he knew that, well, to begin with,

he was a Russian nuclear engineer that

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worked for the CIA during the cold war.

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Wow.

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I don't know if I knew that either.

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Seriously, like out of a, like a

John Carr novel, he was just the most

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amazing man and he had moved to the

private sector by the time I was born

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and developed a type of train break.

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And so.

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He, um, met my mom in Nebraska as

he was selling to the Union Pacific.

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And he had me later in life.

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He was about 50 years old and my mom

and I, um, essentially we, well, I

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got this, the wonderful experience

of being raised at his knee and my

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dad's goal was for me to really take

over the family's engineering and

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manufacturing business, but I was the

only girl and I was the only child.

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And so he was.

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He's very invested in me becoming

a numerical communicator.

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And so I was in his board meetings

and I was watching him, how he would

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negotiate with his clients and deal with

the obstinate, but brilliant engineers

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and the bottom line driven executives.

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And they all had very

domineering personalities.

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But the way Papa would make

deals and come together was by

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focusing on the financial facts.

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And he would always say, Victoria,

if it cannot be expressed in numbers,

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it could not be expressed at all.

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Gosh, it used to drive me nuts as a kid.

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Oh, but now I say it all the time.

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And so, um, this was just in our

household, everything Was related to

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some type of like mathematical operation.

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So, um, as a kid, I was horse crazy.

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I mean, I still am, but, uh, I had right

around the time I was eight years old.

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I had worn my parents down and

I had been begging for a horse.

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And my father said, okay, kid, if

you want a horse, I would like you to

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conduct a life cycle cost analysis.

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Yeah.

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And for you guys out there who don't

have horses, the horse is just the

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cheapest part of the whole thing.

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I mean, they're not like a

motorcycle that you can turn off.

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They continue to eat.

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And you know, the vets are going

to come out and there's going

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to be a very happy vet bill.

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So.

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You have to be aware of just how

much a horse is going to cost.

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Otherwise you can end up in a

negative financial situation.

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So my dad said, do the cost analysis.

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And I said, okay, that's not a no.

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So my mom took me around

to the barns and I.

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Scribble down all of the information.

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And as I went back and my dad was

helping me a little bit with the

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report, I realized that the horse

was going to take all of my time.

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So I asked my father to help me

calculate how much money we were

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spending on all of my activities.

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And my mom had me in like tap piano,

voice lessons, acting lessons.

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I had lacrosse.

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I mean, it was nuts.

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I was a very organized kid.

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And I realized with the horse.

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We weren't going to have

time for that anymore.

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So it would make sense if we reallocated

those funds to the pony instead.

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And yeah, it was still going to cost some

money, a lot of money, but it was doable.

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And so.

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I made this numerical argument and

I realized based off of how I saw my

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dad operate in that space, the more

that I leaned on the actual realities

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and the constraints and not Papa, I

want a pony, please buy it for me.

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He actually moved off his position and

I'm, you know, uh, not too long after

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that, Buster became a part of our family.

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Yeah, but it's solidified in my mind.

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Like how I could use numbers.

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to get what I want.

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And so that then formed the

foundation of my divorce business.

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It's how I extracted myself

out of a very abusive situation

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with my ex who I call Voldemort.

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But, you know, as you were talking about

earlier, Lisa, a lot of women have been

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held outside of the financial operations.

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Either it's how their family set up or

it's just kind of how the cards lay.

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And my parents had a very

traditional marriage where my dad

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worked and my mom, um, up until

I was 10, stayed at home with me.

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And my dad realized that, you know,

my role as being head of household,

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essentially, when he was gone, Was

to be the financial communicator

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between my parents and their

advisor, my mom and their advisor.

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So not only did my dad have me in board

meetings, I was also being inundated

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with, uh, information and how to manage

the family assets after he passed away.

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So this, you know, I never really

thought I would have to use it so

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soon, but my dad was 50 when he had me.

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And when I was 25 years old, he

suffered a catastrophic stroke

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and it was so debilitating.

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I watched it.

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He survived for 12 years after that.

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And it was so hard.

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to watch, but he never lost

his indomitable personality.

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And he always had a smile on his face.

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But, um, part of this was

very challenging because

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the second financial report I wrote was

on long term care insurance as a kid.

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And my dad knew He knew that he was

going to step on God's bus before my

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mom and, um, there was going to like,

who knows what he was really exposed

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to while working for the government.

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And I was concerned.

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And so he had me at his knee

researching out and, uh, these,

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life insurance policies or sorry,

long term care insurance policies.

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And I took the information to our

financial advisor with my mom and we sat

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together and we talked about it and our

advisor, he said, this is cute, Victoria.

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You have enough money though.

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Your parents can self insure.

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So let's take the money and throw it into

a real estate investment trust instead.

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So my parents, went with him thinking that

he was looking out for our best interest.

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And it wasn't until I became a financial

advisor that I realized this dude wasn't

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even licensed to sell insurance products.

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And he was only concerned

about his bottom line.

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And it's a very common, unfortunate belief

in this industry and financial advising.

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To view your client's money as

your own, that blows my mind.

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And so when he looked at my parents

situation, um, he saw the money that

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would have gone to that insurance policy

as reducing his overall commissions.

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And my family was grossly unprepared

for that day when I was 25, when

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my dad suffered that stroke.

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It was just supposed to be routine

surgery and he was never the same.

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And so not only Did I have my dad's

businesses to run after his stroke?

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I also had the operation

surrounding the health, um, costs.

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And my mom was, she was so broken by

seeing her husband go through this

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that she couldn't get out of bed.

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And I mean, my dad knew that, you

know, my mom has other talents and

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money management is not one of them.

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So I was trained.

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To step into his shoes and thank

God that he had prepared me.

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Um, it was still very hard and thank

goodness they had resources, but

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this transition was made so much more

difficult because that advisor was only

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invested in their, uh, insurer, sorry.

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It was only concerned

about their investments.

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And a lot of people are not aware that

a financial advisor generally isn't

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really concerned with personal finance,

with budgeting and insurance products.

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What a financial advisor, that's

actually a protected term, and

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it is, um, essentially means

that you sell investments.

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So investments are just a very

small part of the pie of your

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overall financial well being.

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There's insurance

products that go into it.

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There's budgeting.

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There's, you know, how are

you doing your mortgage?

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There's so many things that

you need to be building out as

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you're doing these investments.

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An estate plan or any type of life

transition plan that, um, financial

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advisors are not really focused on.

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And thankfully I think there's been

some slight changes, but I've been

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doing this for eight, nine years.

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And, um, I have to say, Getting good

financial advice may not come from

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necessarily a financial advisor.

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They're very much so trained

in investment management.

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So you have to be very mindful that

when you're asking for help, you're

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asking the right person to, okay.

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I have to say a couple of things.

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First of all, Your dad, what an amazing

man, what an amazing father, and I can't

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help but think how proud he would be

that you're using what he taught you,

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you know, and you're helping people and

you saw something go not quite right.

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And now you're doing something

about it, but I, I can't help

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but ask, it makes me nervous.

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So what do you do?

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We don't have a financial advisor.

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We've always done it on our

own, but like, we're not really.

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You know, we kind of like

stick it in the 401k.

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We got some stock.

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Um, I'm not really great about finances.

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Like, who do you go to?

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Who, how do you find

someone that you trust?

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Well, you interview a lot of

people and you find somebody that

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meets your goals and alignment.

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Um, I think it's important to,

to have someone that's trained.

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Not just investments, but they maybe

have a certified financial planning

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designation, but more importantly, now

this is kind of going into the weeds.

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If you are working with an independent

broker, I've been at mutual of Omaha and

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Morgan Stanley, and now I'm independent.

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And when I was at mutual of Omaha

and Morgan Stanley, I was locked

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into selling their products.

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And so unfortunately what that meant.

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Is that my clients, they might've been

better served by an independent agent

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that had access to the open marketplace

and all of the bells and whistles, right?

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Um, when I was at Morgan Stanley, they

didn't have any long term care insurance.

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They are an investment management company.

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So they had, um, a vendor that would

sell That product, but you know,

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their incentive structure is not

really set up to have the advisors

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do this holistic plan because their

business model is very specifically

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centered on investment returns.

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So you need to know how, like what

your constraints, if you are working

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with a money manager, what they are.

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And oftentimes, um,

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people don't make, not to

use a blanket statement, but

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there's a lot people could do on

their own if they just Set some

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time up and you know, I, I always

encourage people to get on the same

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page with their spouse now than later.

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It's not even a divorce, right?

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But most people are not aware.

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It's either your spouse is

going to die, you know, and you,

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you're going to be single again.

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Hopefully it's in a very long time.

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But it's either a divorce or a death,

and it's the same transition, except

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with a death, you don't have the other

person to ask where the information is,

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and I have done some estate navigations

where, you know, the benefactor, he

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didn't keep any like a paperwork, and so

you have to go back and reconstruct What

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all of the assets are that you guys own.

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And so having courageous conversations

with your spouse, you know, what,

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you know, what do we actually like,

what do we own and what do we owe?

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And is there anything important that,

you know, you need to tell me if you

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stepped on God's bus tomorrow, you

know, do you have a password backup?

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You know, all of these little things

that you kind of take for granted as

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a part of your everyday operations

right now, they are so much more

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complicated and challenging if

you don't have that person around.

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So taking some time to.

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get on the same page with your spouse.

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So the last thing, like I think

anybody wants to deal with if they're

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grieving their spouse is money,

unfortunately, but with a state

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navigations, you're on a timetable.

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Um, and so you have to go

through the reporting process.

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You have to file paperwork with the state.

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You have to file a tax return

generally within six months.

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And so oftentimes, especially

for women, We're grieving

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the loss of our relationship.

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And then the attorney generally

comes in and is like, Hey, I

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need you to do X, Y, and Z.

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And they don't even know where to begin.

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So, yeah, you're speaking my language.

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And this is exactly what I wanted to talk

about because I want to empower people and

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I have friends that kind of don't care.

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They kind of don't want to

know, but you know what?

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You probably need to.

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You have to know.

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Yes.

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Otherwise, what's going to happen is

you're going to have the most expensive

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estate navigation on the face of

the planet because you're starting

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at complete scratch and you're also

going to be dealing with all of your

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emotions that are going alongside of it.

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And it, is going to just

be incredibly overwhelming.

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So it's challenging, but if you

don't take advantage of communicating

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with your spouse now, you will

most certainly pay for it later.

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Yeah.

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And you know, even as I'm thinking

about it, women are smart cookies and

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they, you know, they can have a say.

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In finances and in your retirement.

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And so I feel like, you

know, it's interesting.

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My husband is just like,

you take care of it.

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I don't want to look at it.

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And yet I have no, I can't

see any of his information.

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You know, it's just always a big mess.

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Like what's in the 401k, how can I get

this money out for this kid in college?

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You know, it's, it's always a mess.

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So, so we try to work together.

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I feel like.

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I'm trying to kind of budget

things and I have no idea where

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the hell it's coming from.

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You know, it's really interesting.

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And, but then I also think.

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He doesn't know how to pay a bill.

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He doesn't have any of my passwords.

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He doesn't know.

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So, you know, even as I'm thinking

of this for me and yeah, like, so

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I'm going to terrify everybody.

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So like the, once the bank knows

that your spouse is dead and

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their social security number is

inactive, they freeze the account.

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Right.

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And so you have to wait to get a death

certificate, which sometimes it can

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take 30 days, 60 days if they're backed

up to get that death certificate.

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And if that person died under,

um, suspicious circumstances,

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it could be even longer.

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Okay.

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Let me ask.

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So if they die in your joint on

the account, you can still get in.

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Yeah, it depends on how it's

set up, but generally, yes.

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But

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any asset that is held specifically

in their name, there is going to be an

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operational process that you're going

to have to go through in order to access

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that money or those, uh, those assets.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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So let's kind of help the like

everyday woman like me, because even

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though I'm, you know, educated, it's

just not been something that I put.

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: 00:18:59

a lot into.

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: 00:19:00

So, or for like my good friend

who's like, I don't even want to

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: 00:19:03

just tell me what I can spend.

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: 00:19:04

I'm fine.

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: 00:19:05

And she's so, she's such a darling.

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: 00:19:08

I love that about her.

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: 00:19:09

But so let's say we're going to

start looking into this more.

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: 00:19:12

And I, like I said, I have

a little more information.

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: 00:19:14

So what I have started doing is, I

send my husband a report on, cause

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: 00:19:21

I'm like, I need you with me on this.

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: 00:19:23

I don't want to, you know, I want to know.

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: 00:19:25

So I, this is what we have, this is what

we're spending, this is what's coming up.

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: 00:19:30

And then I'll just mail,

email that off to him.

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: 00:19:32

Hopefully he'll look at it.

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: 00:19:34

Right.

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: 00:19:34

So for, so that's like my first step or

for those women to just get a look at what

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: 00:19:40

you're spending and how much is coming in.

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: 00:19:42

And what's a little goofy, my

husband's income fluctuates.

333

: 00:19:47

I don't have like a,

it's always different.

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: 00:19:49

Sometimes I'm like, I like those

games, and then sometimes I'm

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: 00:19:55

like, Ooh, I got those too.

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: 00:20:01

So now as I age, I'm starting to go,

okay, I don't want it to be quite so

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: 00:20:05

sparse on those, you know, months.

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: 00:20:07

So, so just kind of getting,

you know, and sometimes you're

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: 00:20:10

not really gonna know, right?

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: 00:20:12

So getting some a little

packed, you know, put it away.

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: 00:20:15

So that you're ready for

the lower pay months.

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: 00:20:18

But so just go through, know what's

coming in, kind of have your budget, know

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: 00:20:22

what's going out, just like you would,

if you were getting divorced, kind of,

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: 00:20:25

really, I mean, okay, here's the thing.

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: 00:20:28

Money can do so many things for you.

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: 00:20:31

And really you should be having

your money have multiple jobs.

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: 00:20:35

So what that means is, okay, let's

say you want to save money, but

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: 00:20:39

instead of just keeping it in account,

have it be in a high yield savings

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: 00:20:43

account or something like that, you

know, put your money to work for you.

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: 00:20:47

And I think a lot of us

have a ton of subscriptions.

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: 00:20:51

Yes.

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: 00:20:52

You know, oftentimes, We forget to

cancel things and that 50 a month

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: 00:20:57

subscription adds up to being, you know,

considerable amount of money each year.

354

: 00:21:01

So if you're able to reallocate how

you're using your money, you can actually

355

: 00:21:07

start living a more aligned, a life

that's more authentic to yourself.

356

: 00:21:12

So we grow up in America.

357

: 00:21:15

So everything is about consumption

and using materialism as a

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: 00:21:19

way to regulate our emotions.

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: 00:21:22

If you are aware of that, for me, when I

was dealing with Voldemort, I had a closet

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: 00:21:28

full of black bags and it was because

I was so miserable with him that I was

361

: 00:21:33

looking for positive dopamine sources

and that came in the form of them all.

362

: 00:21:38

So I would go buy myself a black bag and

it, you know, made me happy for those

363

: 00:21:43

15 seconds, but then I put it right next

to an almost identical bag next to it.

364

: 00:21:49

So it wasn't until one day I walked

in and I'm like, Oh my God, this is

365

: 00:21:53

like a mausoleum to all of the, my

feelings, all of my repressed emotions.

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: 00:21:57

This is where they are.

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: 00:21:59

Perfectly coordinated in all these bags.

368

: 00:22:03

Oh my gosh.

369

: 00:22:10

Okay.

370

: 00:22:11

Okay.

371

: 00:22:12

So So this is what I like too,

Victoria, is you're so positive

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: 00:22:18

with the things that you say.

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: 00:22:19

And there was something else that I

can't remember, but you said money

374

: 00:22:21

can do so many things for you.

375

: 00:22:23

Let's.

376

: 00:22:24

Start holding on to that belief

instead of, I'm so afraid.

377

: 00:22:28

I don't, you know, I

don't want to spend it.

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: 00:22:29

I don't, you know, so I like that.

379

: 00:22:31

I like that positive mindset.

380

: 00:22:33

Well, and it really like goes down

to our childhood trauma, right?

381

: 00:22:38

This impacts your relationships

and divorce, but also it

382

: 00:22:42

impacts how you use money.

383

: 00:22:44

And most of us have essentially, there's

three types of main childhood wounds.

384

: 00:22:50

Abandonment, uh, validation,

and, um, betrayal.

385

: 00:22:56

And so how this shows

up is how you use money.

386

: 00:23:00

For me, I was using money as a

way to validate, but also as a

387

: 00:23:06

way to counteract the feelings

of abandonment that I was having.

388

: 00:23:11

And there was a lot of

betrayal in there too.

389

: 00:23:13

And so I started using my money

for everybody else but me.

390

: 00:23:18

I, you know, stereotypical, like I

had a very ratty bra and underwear

391

: 00:23:24

that like I needed to throw out,

but I'm like, God forbid, I spent a

392

: 00:23:28

hundred dollars and get some new duds.

393

: 00:23:31

Yeah.

394

: 00:23:32

Yeah.

395

: 00:23:33

And so, you know, it's,

Giving myself permission.

396

: 00:23:38

And while I was raised in a

very privileged household,

397

: 00:23:42

my mom was constantly telling

me, it's my money not yours.

398

: 00:23:46

And so there was a few incidents

in my childhood where I, I saved up

399

: 00:23:51

and I bought this really beautiful

bracelet and my mom made me return it

400

: 00:23:54

because she didn't like me, you know,

doing that in front of my cousin.

401

: 00:23:59

So the narrative that

I had in my mind was.

402

: 00:24:02

I, even though I can make money,

I can't spend it on myself.

403

: 00:24:08

And so that has been a narrative I

have had to go in and change where

404

: 00:24:13

yes, I can make money and I can

also use it to take care of myself.

405

: 00:24:18

Right.

406

: 00:24:19

So confronting these hard beliefs,

um, and then something I think a lot

407

: 00:24:24

of us probably do and not know it,

but I, um, when I was going through

408

: 00:24:29

my separation with Voldemort, I.

409

: 00:24:33

Had been giving and giving and giving, and

there was no, nothing left to give for me.

410

: 00:24:37

I needed, there was nobody in my

corner and I needed to have some

411

: 00:24:43

type of positive human interaction

where someone else was serving me.

412

: 00:24:49

And it wasn't until I realized I was going

to Starbucks four fricking times a day,

413

: 00:24:55

that that was how I was meeting that need.

414

: 00:24:58

The, there was nobody to hand

me a cup of coffee at home.

415

: 00:25:02

If anything, he was going to

pour the hot coffee on me.

416

: 00:25:05

And I had to go outside to find

any type of positive interaction.

417

: 00:25:09

And so instead of like taking a

step back and realizing, okay,

418

: 00:25:13

this is a bad relationship and

I need to build a community.

419

: 00:25:17

I was outsourcing that to Starbucks and

I'm so grateful for those baristas, but

420

: 00:25:22

it, you know, I needed that caffeine.

421

: 00:25:25

Maybe not four different

espresso drinks a day.

422

: 00:25:28

Yeah.

423

: 00:25:29

And I see this a lot in

my, my clients as well.

424

: 00:25:33

We give, give, give, give,

give to everybody else.

425

: 00:25:36

And we just need a small token

of validation and appreciation.

426

: 00:25:41

And that generally comes

in the Starbucks line.

427

: 00:25:44

And okay.

428

: 00:25:45

So what I'm kind of hearing is if

you can become aware of that and

429

: 00:25:49

really look at what you're spending

it on, maybe you can meet that need.

430

: 00:25:54

Okay.

431

: 00:25:54

somewhere else in a more healthy way.

432

: 00:25:57

That's actually going to fulfill you.

433

: 00:26:01

Amen.

434

: 00:26:01

Amen.

435

: 00:26:02

I feel like, okay, this is a great

place to stop because it's interesting.

436

: 00:26:06

I mean, I, I think I could talk to you

for days and days and days because I would

437

: 00:26:11

love to talk to you more about childhood

trauma, but maybe we can schedule another

438

: 00:26:15

one because I actually just took a course.

439

: 00:26:19

on core wounds.

440

: 00:26:20

And so I feel like I might be, we

might be leaving people hanging a

441

: 00:26:25

little bit, but I'd like to talk about

that more if we can schedule another

442

: 00:26:30

podcast and talk, talk about childhood

trauma and how that is affecting how

443

: 00:26:36

you're dealing with finances now.

444

: 00:26:38

Yeah, well, absolutely.

445

: 00:26:40

And we can go into, um, how to

create a mindful spending practice.

446

: 00:26:44

That's what I need.

447

: 00:26:45

Yes!

448

: 00:26:48

Okay, Victoria.

449

: 00:26:50

I am gonna, yeah, I'm gonna try to have

you back for that, but I have to, I

450

: 00:26:53

can't believe how fast this has gone.

451

: 00:26:56

I can't believe how much I've

learned, and I just am so grateful.

452

: 00:27:01

I just love getting to know you

better, and I love learning from

453

: 00:27:05

you, and I just feel like this is,

this is Such a blessing in my life.

454

: 00:27:08

So thank you.

455

: 00:27:09

Thank you for being here.

456

: 00:27:11

I just love your energy and I'm so

grateful for the platform to share

457

: 00:27:15

some of my hard won experience.

458

: 00:27:17

So hopefully listeners can

expedite that learning curve and

459

: 00:27:21

avoid all the mistakes I made.

460

: 00:27:23

That's the plan.

461

: 00:27:24

That's the plan here at Saddle Up Live.

462

: 00:27:26

So thank you so much.

463

: 00:27:27

You take good care.

464

: 00:27:28

Thank you so much, Lisa.