From Heartbreak to Hope: Rebuilding Your Life After Loss with Carrie Hopkins-Doubts

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Welcome listeners.

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I am so happy that you're here today.

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I have Carrie Hopkins doubts with

me, and it's going to be a really

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fun conversation, maybe not about a

super fun subject, but we're going to

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get to know Carrie more through this

episode and Carrie is, a spiritual

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resilience coach, and I think she

helps people a lot of times through

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life transitions or difficult times,

kind of rebuilding after loss.

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So that's what this episode is about.

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And you know what I, what I always

want, we were kind of talking about

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this before people to know that

grief isn't just about death, it is

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about death, but grief can be about.

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Divorce grief can be about going through

a different, you know, having a different

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way of life It can be a lot of different

things So it affects us all even if we

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don't realize it even if it hasn't been

someone close to us who's died There

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are things that have Moved and changed.

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So Carrie, welcome.

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I'm so happy that you're here.

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Can you just help us get to know you

better and what led you to do this work?

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Sure, Lisa this is such

a great conversation.

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And like you said not a welcome

subject for a lot of people,

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but I love talking about this.

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what led me to, well, I started out as

a grief coach, I had, before becoming

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a coach done all the training to become

a marriage and family therapist and

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got into my internship and just decided

this was not the career path for me.

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It was really to.

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clinical too much for me.

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I love therapists.

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I think therapy is great, but

it just wasn't great for me.

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and then I decided to go into

coach training and I got myself

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trained and certified as a coach.

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And because I had had all of that

training and being able to sit with

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people with, you know, big emotions.

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I thought, well, why don't I use this

as my specialization in coaching?

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And so I started out doing that just

because I'd lost my mom during the time

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that I was in the coach training program.

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That was a big loss for me.

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My relationship with my mom was, it

was, let's just say, a little tense.

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So I loved her, she loved me, but

we didn't get along that well.

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So there was a lot of ambivalence in the

relationship, that ambivalent attachment.

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And when she died, it really hit me hard

because there was no chance for me to get

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the love that I was thinking I was ever

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going to get from her because,

you know, the chance was over.

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So when I went through that and

decided to focus on grief, I also found

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myself focusing on divorce because

that was also part of my background.

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I was divorced in 1992 and that was

one of the most challenging, difficult,

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painful situations that I'd been

through at that point in my life.

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So I found myself working with

people going through divorce, through

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bereavement, through job loss, any

of these things where there's an

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ending of some normal part of your

life and where grief will come in.

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And it's really important just to have

somebody to talk these things through.

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And then, about three and a half

years, my second husband died suddenly.

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Oh, jeez.

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Yeah.

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so it was not only, okay, I'm

certified as a grief counselor, I

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know the territory, I know the maps,

but I got to walk the territory this

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time, and sometimes on my hands and

knees, it was incredibly painful.

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And, to this day now, fast forward to

today, I worked through my own process

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using my own program and also the help

of my own coach and I really adapted

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to and created a life that I love

on the other side of that huge loss.

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So I'm still working with people in

those arenas, but I've recontexted

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the work that I do calling it

spiritual resilience, because

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that's what we're really going for.

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To know yourself as capable, creative,

resourceful, and whole, even when

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you're going through grief and loss.

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Thank you for sharing that because

there were, there were many

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things that you touched on that

I think people could relate to.

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One is if you have a parent that

passes that maybe you didn't get along

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with, There's still grief there, I

have someone really close to me who

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I have a, several people who have

lost their spouse and, I really want

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to help people who go through that.

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And you lose them in divorce

and death, however that works.

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But I know in particular, this one

that's very close to me, I think she

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has just, Come to the conclusion,

you know, she's handling it.

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She's gotten therapy, which I love She's

had a really good Therapist and I I do

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want to say the difference between therapy

and coaching and I think therapy is so

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helpful We all need talk therapy now and

then when I think of coaching I think of

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as moving forward of how you're going to

maybe change things in the future And for

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this person in particular, I feel bad.

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She's a little bit older than me

and they were very, very close.

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And I don't know that she has

a lot of hope for the future.

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I think there's a lot of feeling like,

well, I'm kind of looking forward to,

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to being there with him at some point.

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Man, I sure would love

to see her happy, joyful.

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And I know with grief, I

think I understand Carrie that

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we always carry it with us.

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It's always here.

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It's that little piece that's

there, but you can still find

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joy and yeah, you're changed.

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And yeah, there's something different

and you, and you know that that loss

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is there and you, and alongside that.

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I can go and enjoy things as well.

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Does that sound right?

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Absolutely.

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And it depends also on the amount

of time that has passed between the

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person's death and now because it does

take time to process through this.

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We can still hold that person in our

hearts because they'll always be there.

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You know, the love that we felt for

that person, we can feel it still.

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You know, I still feel

that for my husband.

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I just, it's not in the here

and now and in the present, you

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know, and it is important, you

said something very important.

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We want to start moving forward

in our lives, not moving on.

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You know, a lot of times people say,

Oh, it feels disloyal to move on

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because that almost, sort of signifies

that you're leaving them behind.

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You're moving on without them.

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And so I say, no, we move forward, sort

of adapting to the loss and incorporating

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the grief into our lives because

like you said, it doesn't go away.

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It will show up as a grief trigger.

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All of a sudden you hear a song

that you used to love or, you know,

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you go to a restaurant and it's

like, Oh yeah, we used to go here,

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You know, just, we get a memory

triggered and then the grief can.

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So it's just, it's sort of, I, you know,

I am not surprised when that happens.

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I just take a breath and it's

like, Oh, here's grief again.

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It's okay.

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Just take a breath.

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Just cry my tears, you know, do what

I need to do to take care of myself.

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And then, you know, I

picked myself up and I've.

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rebuilt my life after that great loss.

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And I moved from, we lived in Arizona.

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That was the place he wanted

to retire after he was gone.

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It's like, I don't want to live here.

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So I moved back to the Los Angeles

area and I'm right around the

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corner from where my daughter lives.

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And so, you know, I, I've created a new

life for myself and one that I love.

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Yep, that's fantastic.

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And so I kind of want to as I'm sitting

here listening to you I want you to help

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me if we can I know we don't have a lot of

time But can we talk about okay, so in the

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beginning stages when this is brand new

now the friend I'm telling you about it's

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You know, over a couple of years, right?

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Which who knows?

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We're all different.

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I don't know how long it takes,

but, I understand that there has

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to be a time where you have to sit.

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And what I love that you said is

that you'll get a wave of grief

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and you sit and you feel it.

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I don't know if this is normal,

but I feel like I would run away

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from those feelings all the time.

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Oh, I can't feel this way now.

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You know, get it out.

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Cause we don't want to,

who wants to feel that?

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I felt that way too, you know, it's just

like, yeah, but finish your questions.

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So just for the audience to realize

if you're like me and you run

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away from those feelings, cause

you don't want to feel them.

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They are going to be worse or come out a

different way So feel them feel them and

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then it's almost like they can dissipate.

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I know sometimes it's hard if

you start You know reeling in it.

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That's where you can kind of have

issues But okay So what I'm kind of

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thinking of let's go through some

stages like if someone's brand new

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into this brand new into a loss

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I sit and cry You And I think, I don't

know, even when my oldest daughter went

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to college, I was like, I don't know

if I'm going to get over this couple

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of weeks to really feel normal again.

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but, but what do people do in that, in

the early beginning stages of either

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divorce or death or, diagnosis that

scares them and change, whatever it is.

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Right.

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Well, that first stage is exactly, you

know, the first step in my Rebuilding

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Your Life After Loss program,

which people going through divorce,

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people going through bereavement,

all kinds of people take this.

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It's a program, just designed for

grief, no matter what the context.

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But the first step is creating a

safe space, a safety net for yourself

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to feel, to heal your feelings.

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And I shouldn't say heal your feelings

because we don't really heal them, but

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we experience them, we bring them in, we

welcome them, say, Oh, here's sadness.

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Sadness is here.

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we feel it, we name it, you know,

so it's really important to name it.

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A lot of times people, you know, just

slowing down and naming it helps the

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brain sort of integrate what's going on.

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So you feel it, you

name it, you express it.

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that's where a safe other.

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really comes into play.

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You need a place, a person, a

vehicle for you to express, safely,

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without any judgment, without people

needing to fix you, without people

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needing to minimize your feelings.

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often a coach or sometimes it's just

a trusted friend, maybe somebody

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who's gone through something like

this, and they know how to companion

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with you and just be there for you.

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while you express it all.

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and so that's a very important first step

because like you said, Lisa, if you don't

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do this, if you try to shove it away

or avoid it or numb it or, do all those

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things that we do, it's not going away.

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So what it will do is it hangs out

in our subconscious, our unconscious,

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comes up in these really overblown

reactions that we have to life where,

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you know, road rage, something like that.

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it also can go into body.

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So it can go into the, the tissue of

the body and somaticize, become illness.

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There's lots of research about,

unresolved or unmet grief, can

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lead to a person's illnesses.

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So it's really important, like you said,

to have a safe place, a safe container.

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to feel, to release these emotions.

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And like you said, once you've released

it, once you've really given it that

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safe space inside of you, like you invite

it to tea, like come sit down, talk,

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what have you got to share with me?

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It has a message for you.

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And then once it's delivered its

message, it goes on, and then you have

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the next feeling, whatever that is.

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Right.

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Okay.

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You said that is the first

step to your rebuilding steps.

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How many steps do you have?

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I have a nine step process.

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Boy, I don't know if we're going

to be able to get through all nine.

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It's just realizing, bringing awareness

can sometimes, be all you need.

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Just knowing that first step is, I

really need to create a safe space

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for me to feel all of these feelings.

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You know, grief, it's

going to bring them all.

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It's going to bring, sadness, hurt.

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anger, relief, you know, we have

so many feelings, and they're

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all normal, I have lisakosky.

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com.

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If you want to go there,

I have a Facebook page.

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Feelings wheel.

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And sometimes I look at that so

you can grab it there that you

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can probably find them online too.

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But sometimes if you're having trouble

naming it, that can be helpful.

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That's right.

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You know, when people say,

well, how are you feeling?

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You know, and their answer is I feel good.

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Right.

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That's not a feeling that's a label.

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I know.

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Mm hmm.

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What's number two?

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Second step is creating capacity

through what I call radical self care.

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You know, because when you're grieving

any kind of loss, often if you are

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having to help your kids through this

as well, say with a divorce, or you

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know, you're now a single parent.

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You know, where you had the, the help

of your spouse before in raising kids,

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it's often so common, really, for

you to neglect your own self care.

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And so we start to talk about,

well, how is grief affecting

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you on the physical level?

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A lot of times it's,

I'm not sleeping well.

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I'm not eating well, I'm not

exercising, I'm not doing all those

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things that, we all know we should

do to take care of ourselves.

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But what people don't recognize

is if they don't take care of

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themselves first, they don't have

the capacity to take care of others.

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It's like putting your own oxygen

mask on first before, you know, like

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they say on the airplane, right?

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You have to have your own oxygen

before you can help other people.

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And I think that is something that

we all know, but that we rarely do.

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Yeah.

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And when you're grieving, you're

even more physically depleted

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than you would be normally.

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Yeah.

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And then, yeah, we forget, you

know, to take care of ourselves.

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that's a good one.

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Third is making peace with the past.

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And so when we are sort of unpacking what

has led us to the present moment where

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this person, either through a divorce

or bereavement, is no longer part of our

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lives, it's going to bring up Some of the

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memories, the things that were

unresolved in those relationships.

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And this is where we take, really

slow things down and look at that.

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You know, what judgments am I holding

against that person or myself?

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And this is where we get free of these

limiting beliefs that we've got going

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on about the nature of relationships,

the nature, you know, it's like we

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make up meaning, about, well, I guess

I'm just not cut out for marriage

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because I failed at it three times,

whatever, you know, and people really

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hurt themselves by hanging on to these,

untruthful, beliefs about themselves.

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So we really take a look at the past,

not as a way of ruminating about it

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or anything like that, but just to

look at the dynamics that perhaps

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maybe created the relationship

issues that you were having.

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Sometimes also it's, helpful in a

divorce, but also helpful when somebody

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passes, like for myself, looking at

all the judgments that I held against

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my mom or myself and, forgiving myself

for the judgments I placed against

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her, that I placed against myself

as not being a good enough daughter,

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you know, all of those things.

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So we really free up a lot of

that energy that is going on.

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gotten stuck in the past.

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Well, and okay, I can't help but ask this

has popped into my head and it's kind of

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the flip side of when someone you love

passes, not someone that you have, you

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know, some, maybe some unresolved things

with or someone who you're divorced with.

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I remember hearing people telling

me that sometimes you can.

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Remember them as perfect, perfect in every

way and not really see them how it was.

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Is that anything?

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Yes.

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That's really smart.

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I like that you brought that forward

because, you know, if you've ever had

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children and you go through childbirth

and then, you know, you have this

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baby and, oh, it's so wonderful.

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And you forget about all that.

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That's what our minds do.

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we tend to minimize or

forget the painful things.

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So that's often what happens.

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You also like enshrine this person.

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Put them up on a pedestal.

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he was the love of my life.

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She was the only one for me,

you know, and you're right.

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It's like we have forgotten about

the fights we used to have or the,

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that this person wasn't perfect.

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So it is important to be honest and

you're looking back in the past.

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And, you know, it's like, well,

this part of it drove me crazy, but,

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you know, so, it doesn't.

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If you enshrine that person,

it really makes it difficult to

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move forward in any other kind of

intimate relationship because you

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feel like it would be a disloyalty.

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Yeah.

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Well, and yeah, that's interesting.

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And I'm thinking, even when I think

about my grandpa, he was, he was a King.

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He was perfect now

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and maybe that, maybe that was okay

that I felt that way when I was young.

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And then as I have grown, you know,

I can see there have, there were

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things that he did that weren't

amazing and great and that's okay.

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And I can still love him.

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But.

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That's just so interesting.

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And I wondered how that would play in

if you, for future relationships, if

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you did have them on that pedestal,

you can still say, Hey, I'd take him

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: 00:19:43

chomping his gum in my ear in a second.

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: 00:19:45

I mean, right.

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But that it wasn't all just to be real.

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Right.

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: 00:19:49

Just to be real, you know, when we shine

a light on something and then we put

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that spotlight of perfection on somebody,

we're forgetting that there's shadows,

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there's gonna be shadow, you know?

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And so it's really important that we

look at somebody with the light and with

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the shadow, that we look at ourselves

with the light and with the shadow.

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: 00:20:12

Because often what we'll do if we

find that we have objectionable

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: 00:20:17

traits or behaviors That we don't

accept about ourselves, we can

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: 00:20:23

project them onto that other person.

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: 00:20:26

Similarly, we can do

a positive projection.

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: 00:20:29

We take all the, the things that

we haven't owned about ourselves

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that are really wonderful.

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: 00:20:34

Oh, this person was so smart.

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He was so gorgeous.

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: 00:20:37

He was this.

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: 00:20:38

He was kind.

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: 00:20:38

and these could be unowned

aspects of ourselves that we're

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: 00:20:41

projecting onto that person.

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: 00:20:44

We're not seeing the person

as they truly are or were.

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: 00:20:48

We're seeing our projection.

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: 00:20:49

So that's what part of what we look

at in this third phase of the program.

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We look at the owning and accepting

those projections and bringing

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: 00:20:59

them back home and go, you know, I

sometimes treat myself like this too.

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: 00:21:06

If it's a negative projection, or

I treat other people like that.

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: 00:21:10

And it's interesting because

isn't that unconditional love.

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: 00:21:14

is loving their shadows too?

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: 00:21:17

Unconditional love is not

easy to do in a relationship.

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that's the spiritual level

of unconditional loving.

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the loving of the universe, of God,

whatever people's spiritual beliefs

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: 00:21:29

are, that's where unconditional love is.

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: 00:21:32

But we have conditioned love in

relationships, but the more that we can

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: 00:21:36

do our own work in relationship, whether

it's a current relationship or a past

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: 00:21:42

relationship, The more that we can own our

own stuff and take responsibility for it,

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: 00:21:48

the more that we can have happy, really

productive and loving relationships.

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: 00:21:55

Now.

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: 00:21:56

Yeah.

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: 00:21:56

Now.

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: 00:21:57

Yeah.

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: 00:21:58

Yeah.

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: 00:21:58

So good.

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: 00:21:59

Yeah.

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: 00:22:00

So good.

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: 00:22:00

And so I'm looking at the time, Carrie.

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: 00:22:02

I can't wait.

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: 00:22:03

Like I'm actually talking.

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: 00:22:04

Oh my gosh, look at that.

355

: 00:22:05

I know.

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: 00:22:06

I think I'm talking

more than I usually do.

357

: 00:22:09

Ooh.

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: 00:22:09

And this is what I'm wondering.

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: 00:22:11

Would you come back on?

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: 00:22:13

I'd be happy to.

361

: 00:22:15

And then we could talk about

the, so did we get through three?

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: 00:22:19

We got through three, you know,

cause that, that's really a good

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: 00:22:22

place because that's setting

the foundation for what's next.

364

: 00:22:28

All right.

365

: 00:22:28

I won't say what's next.

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: 00:22:30

All right.

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: 00:22:30

Well, we'll be sitting here

anticipating what's next.

368

: 00:22:35

And I'm going to see if I can get us

scheduled here when we're done on this,

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: 00:22:39

but I just have to, I so appreciate this.

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: 00:22:42

And I get, I got lost in it because

it was so fun to learn from you.

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: 00:22:46

So thank you.

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: 00:22:47

Thank you for going through something

hard and using it to help the world.

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: 00:22:52

That's such a blessing.

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: 00:22:54

And I want you to know that I see that.

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: 00:22:57

And I'm very, very grateful.

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: 00:22:58

and then Keri, if our listeners

want help from you, we'll have

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: 00:23:03

your information in the show notes.

378

: 00:23:04

What's the best way to

reach out and work with you?

379

: 00:23:07

Oh, the best way to reach me is my company

is called Life's Next Chapter Coaching.

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: 00:23:12

And that's really what we're

doing is we're creating your

381

: 00:23:15

life's next chapter after chapter.

382

: 00:23:18

you know, whatever you're going

through is, resolving itself.

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: 00:23:21

So they can reach me at, Carrie

at Life's Next Chapter Coaching.

384

: 00:23:25

They can visit me on my website.

385

: 00:23:27

There's lots of resources.

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: 00:23:28

There's information about my Rebuilding

Your Life After Loss program.

387

: 00:23:32

And so, yeah, that's the

best way to reach me.

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: 00:23:35

Wonderful.

389

: 00:23:36

So listeners, if you need a little help

in this area, at least go look at those

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: 00:23:40

free resources or reach out to Carrie.

391

: 00:23:43

So Carrie, I'm so excited that

you're going to come back and

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: 00:23:46

thank you so much for being here.

393

: 00:23:48

Well, Lisa, thank you for

this great conversation and

394

: 00:23:52

for having me on your show.

395

: 00:23:53

I really appreciate it.

396

: 00:23:55

My pleasure.

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: 00:23:56

You take good care.

398

: 00:23:57

Yeah, you too.