Balancing Motherhood and Money

Lesa Koski: 00:00:00

Welcome listeners.

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I'm very excited.

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I have a new friend, Catherine Collins.

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I call her Kat.

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She was on doing divorces.

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different.

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So if you have any issues financially

and are thinking about divorce, go back

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and listen to doing divorce different,

but we're happy to have you at saddle

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up live to learn about finances and cat

is going to share her authentic story.

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What led her to help?

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She helps a lot of women.

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I think who've maybe feel like

they don't know about finances.

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So we're going to delve into that and

we're going talk about stay at home moms.

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versus working.

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And this is a good one that I

think I really need it for my kids.

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They seem to be doing okay.

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How do you get your kids on

the right financial path?

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So Kat, thank you for joining us.

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Thanks for having

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Catherine Collins: me.

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Thank you so much.

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I'm really excited to be here.

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These are some of my very favorite topics.

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And, um, yeah, so very quick backstory.

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Um, I am a full time financial writer.

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Um, I've been fully self

employed for about 10 years now.

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And so I do financial writing.

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I own personal finance websites with

a business partner and my partner and

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I have a podcast called five year you.

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Um, but I don't have a finance background.

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I don't have a business degree.

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I came at it a weird way.

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I started a budget blog when I was

in graduate school for history.

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And I was just writing about how

broke I was and how I was trying to

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live on a 14, 000 a year stipend.

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And, you know, it was a challenging time.

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It's a very like academically

intense environment.

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And my blog was sort of my outlet

to creatively write and, um, share

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my thrift finds and, Over time to

supplement my income, I started to

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apply to freelance writing jobs online.

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Again, this, so this was in 2010.

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So very like dinosaur blogging days.

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Um, I got paid 8 a post to start, but

like the more experience I got, I,

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um, you know, traded out an 8 post

for a 20 one and a 24 50, um, to where

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I am today, which fully supports.

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Me as my job.

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Um, so I always love sharing that

with people because there's so many

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finance experts out there and there's

so many amazing experts out there

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with letters behind their name and

business school and all of that stuff.

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But I like to come on

authentically and say like, look,

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I didn't go to school for this.

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But these are things I learned

from experience from a lot

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of research and writing.

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Um, just because I started writing

about budgeting, all the jobs I

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got ended up being about budgeting.

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Then they were about mortgages

and they were about investing.

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And then there was brand deals that

wanted someone who was like a regular

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mom, a regular person to talk about money.

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And then, um, I got a book deal and

wrote a book called mom's got money, uh,

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which is a personal finance book for mom.

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So just so your listeners know if they're

listening to this and they're like, money.

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It's like, I get it.

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This is not going to be

like bro finance talk.

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This is me coming to other women and

saying, look, the language of money

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has been made intentionally difficult

to leave us out of the conversation.

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And all women listening to this are smart

enough and capable enough to absolutely

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learn everything there is to know about

personal finance and sort of take their

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financial futures into their own hands.

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Lesa Koski: Okay, Kat.

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I love that.

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And I love that about you.

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And I've told you that before.

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My favorite things that you're,

you're kind of a regular gal.

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I am like all of us, like all of us.

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And so what that's telling the listeners

is they too can become an expert.

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You're an expert.

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You get paid.

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for writing about finances and

you learned it on your own.

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It is possible.

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And I don't, what is that?

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Like, why are women sometimes,

you know, adverse to finances?

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I'm not sure what that is, but you

said, um, sometimes they make it

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more difficult than Then it is.

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And truly, when you think about

it, it's not that difficult.

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And that is what I've

learned with my work.

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Finally, now that I'm a

grandma, I understand that

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this really isn't that hard.

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This is what you have and

this is what you can spend.

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So finally I get it.

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Catherine Collins: Yeah, for sure.

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I mean, there, I mean, we could

have a whole nother episode.

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I mean, there's an entire.

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You know cultural narrative that we've

all been brought up with and the change

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is slow um, but we are still like

unearthing the narrative that You know

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men and husbands are the ones that earn

money and manage the money and that women

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um, you know their job even if they work

is You know to maintain the kids and

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handle the mental load of all that I

think there's been so many conversations

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like changing that and updating that

Um, But we're still going against a

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lot of societal pressures and norms and

advertising that tells us otherwise.

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Yeah,

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Lesa Koski: I totally agree.

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And I'm glad that you brought

that up, which kind of could

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bring us into the topic of stay

at home moms versus working moms.

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Let's talk about that a little bit.

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Give us your perspective.

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And I want to say I'm an attorney.

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I was a stay at home mom for many years.

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Um, there were really

hard things about it.

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Yeah.

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Um, and there I would never change it.

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Catherine Collins: Yeah.

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Lesa Koski: Yeah.

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Catherine Collins: I think, um,

I have an interesting perspective

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on this because I have been a work

from home mom the entire time.

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So I had twins in 2014 and that's

the same year I became self employed.

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I was working towards that because I, I

knew that it would be challenging and it

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would be fine to hard to daycare spots.

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I had been, I was teaching and

doing museum work, but I had this

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whole freelance writing thing

on the side that was growing.

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And as I watched my numbers, I remember

it was the July before I had them

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that my writing income surpassed my

day job income for the first time.

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And I remember thinking if I can keep

this up, then by the time they come, I

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might be able to stay at home with them.

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So I kind of did the balance thing of

it's very, you know, this is not like, I'm

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not like the Instagram with the million

dollar business with the baby on the hip.

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This is just very normal.

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Put the twins down for a nap, write

an article while they nap, leave

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the dishes, house is a disaster.

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This is very much like put the twins

down for bed, write another article.

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But because of that, um, I got the

perspective of what it's like to

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be a stay at home mom and all the

challenges that come with it and

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all the benefits of seeing their

first steps and things like that.

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I got the benefit of.

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earning enough finally to hire

a mother's helper than hire a

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babysitter for 20 hours a week.

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So I had a little bit of balance and

then I get to send them off to school

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and then, you know, have, you know, 8 a.

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m to three to work and then

pick them up every day and

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bring them to their activities.

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That's what I was working towards.

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And so I do have the perspectives

of, Of sort of both, like, uh,

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uh, I still, still have sort of

like a foot in both worlds now.

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Yeah.

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Lesa Koski: I love that.

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And I did that as well.

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And I'm going to tell you, you're, you

sound like you're doing it beautifully.

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I kind of felt like I was, I'm

just going to swear a little,

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which I don't usually do.

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I was half ass at everything.

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It does feel like that.

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Yeah, it was a half ass mom.

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And then I was, uh, you know,

you're just, it did feel like a lot.

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And it is a lot.

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So give yourself some grace.

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And Kat, what I have to say is what

I'm seeing now with my adult children.

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One of my daughters is almost

done with her residency,

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which we're so excited about.

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And she's got a three year old and

her husband, she's a rock star.

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And so is her husband.

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Because he has taken on a lot.

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All of it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And so, and then I watch my daughter

in law who's a nurse, it works a little

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bit more part time and my son who

works full time, they're more partners.

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They are partners and I

am seeing a shift in this.

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In fact, I just did a podcast

with somebody about this,

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which is amazing and I love it.

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So mamas, if you're staying home all

day with your kids, you still, you don't

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have to work until you fall into bed,

you can still count on your husband.

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Uh, to be there supporting you because

if you were bringing in, you know,

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daycare kids, that would be a job.

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And I think we miss that.

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I think we miss that.

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So I'm really, that is what like the world

can look kind of, you know, I look at

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that and how, um, my kiddos and my husband

has always been a pretty good partner.

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Um, I see it even more so happening.

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And.

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That's what I want to see in finances too.

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I think yes, is awesome.

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Um, for couples, if they can do it

together, you know, do their finance.

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But one thing I just have

to bring this up too.

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And it really hit me when I was.

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A new lawyer.

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And I worked a little bit.

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We have a big span of years between

my son and our baby who we adopted.

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So I'm like half grandma, half father.

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Yeah.

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I know it's awesome.

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But we had a big span and I remember, so

I was working a little bit and I was going

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for my continuing legal education courses.

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And I went and I listened to a well

known family law attorney and she

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said, Don't ever be a stay at home mom.

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I don't recommend it because

then you're screwed in divorce.

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Well, I still did it.

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I still did it and I'm glad that I did.

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But sadly Cat, that is what we're hearing.

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That's what the message is.

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It's like you, it's a

little bit scary for women.

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Can you talk about that at all?

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And.

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And what do you, you know, if

you are that stay at home mom and

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suddenly your husband decides he

doesn't want to be married anymore?

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Catherine Collins: Yep.

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I, I mean, I think

that's a great question.

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I went through a divorce two and a half

years ago and, um, I would have been

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absolutely terrified had I not had a

business and streams of income on my own.

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Um, but that's not to say that being a

stay at home mom is wrong in any way.

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And I would, I see what that

family lawyer was saying.

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And so I would say that with an

asterisk, with a caveat, I think it's

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possible to be a stay at home mom.

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So long as you and your spouse

sit down regularly and talk

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about money, but not just that.

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that you have money in your own name.

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If your spouse works and you don't,

some employers offer a spousal

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IRA where you can have your own

retirement account in your own name.

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Um, it's not enough now today to be a stay

at home mom and to do everything like if.

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Our previous generations did because

now the divorce is possible, but also

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emergencies, the unthinkable is possible.

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And so I always tell people like, if

you're in a secure and happy marriage

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and you're listening to me and

thinking that will never happen to me.

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Um, I thought the same thing, but even

if you're very secure, your spouse

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could still get hit by a bus tomorrow.

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And so it is vital.

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And if you don't want to do

it for yourself, then for your

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children, it is vital for you

to know every asset you have.

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It is vital for you to know how

much money is in your bank account,

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what your spending is like.

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That doesn't even mean you

have to have joint accounts.

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You can have separate accounts,

but it is not enough to be

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a stay at home mom anymore.

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You have to have the knowledge and the

financial literacy to be able to move

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forward in case the unthinkable happens.

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Because the worst time to learn

about money is in the worst moments

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of your life right now is the time.

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And I do think there's a lot of

men, like you said, there's been a

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lot of discuss about mental load.

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There's a lot of amazing

men who do partake and who

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do take care of their kids.

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And so there are a lot of men

who are open to the discussion.

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Things are changing now.

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And, uh, there are a lot of men

open to that discussion and it's

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about the partnership and awareness.

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And I do think, so I think

it's possible, but with a much

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stronger partnership financially.

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Absolutely.

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Lesa Koski: Okay.

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I love that cat.

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I love that.

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And I think that's where my husband

and I probably fell a little bit short

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where I took care of all the finances,

but I didn't know where everything

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was and I can't get my hands on it.

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So now we're finally on my case.

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Sweetheart, you got to get me on.

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Yeah, 401k so that I also can manage

it, not just because I'm worried.

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I mean, not because I'm worried about

divorce, it's because he's busy.

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He's got a huge job working all the time.

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He doesn't have time to go

in and figure out how to take

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money out for the kids college.

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And so, and the, the HSA and I

didn't do that and I wish I would

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have, so learn from that, but now

Kat, okay, so time's ticking along

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here and I still want to talk about.

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How to get your, get your kids on the

right financial path, because I don't

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think I was on a good financial path.

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And I know my dad did his darndest tree.

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You know, he was like,

I paid for everything.

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I worked really hard.

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Um, you know, but, and yet,

I never really understood it.

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All through college, I would

buy a bag of potatoes, eat them

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so that I could go buy a shirt.

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Actually, it's

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Catherine Collins: pretty good.

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It's better than most people

who would just buy both.

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Um, so I.

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My like biggest thing as a mom is yes,

you know, love my children, but I view

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like my job as their mom is to prepare

them to be independent human beings.

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And now, because I am a single parent

to them, um, after getting divorced,

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even more so I am like very heavy on.

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anything that creates

independence in them.

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And once I learn how to do something,

I don't do it for them again.

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Um, so I do the very controversial

thing of paying my kids for chores.

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But when my kids go out with their

friends, when they walk to town and get

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an ice cream, if they want to get a slice

of pizza, if they want to get a t shirt.

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They buy it.

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Lesa Koski: Yeah.

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Catherine Collins: Now I'll buy back

to school stuff, you know, birthday's

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Christmas, but I am not the mom that's

taking them through target and say,

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Oh my God, this shirt's so cute.

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Oh my God, I got to get this for you.

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I don't do any of that.

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And so they have the

ability to earn money.

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They earn money from doing just about

every chore there is in the house.

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And they get money from reading books.

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I'll pay them 10 for a nice

big, thick chapter book.

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And everyone's like, Oh my God,

I can't believe you do that.

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Are you kidding?

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They're reading a big, thick chapter

book and they're not on their iPads.

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But I do it.

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And I kind of like overdo it

because of the things that they're

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required to buy on their own.

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And my son, 10 years old, 18 months, he

saved, he saved for a PlayStation five.

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That's funny.

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500 video game console.

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I can't tell you how many

times I wanted to pat it.

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I wanted to like give

it to him for Christmas.

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Like there was a sad little, he's

got these giant brown eyes, this

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sad little puppy dog, like all

I want for Christmas is a PS5.

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I just want one thing on the list.

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And I'm like,

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the confidence he got from buying it

himself, which he did in March after

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Christmas, he turned 10 and so he

finally got, you know, the grandparent

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birthday money that topped it off

and it's his, he bought it and Before

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that he was buying Pokemon cards

like they were going out of style.

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Yeah.

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He had to make the choice.

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What do I want more?

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And that's sort of my

way of preparing them.

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I do this in every single way.

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Like even when we go to the airport

at 10, I just kind of stand there

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and I'm like, Where do we go?

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Where's the security line?

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What signs do you see?

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I'm like, you know, I'm like,

okay, what's our gate number?

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How do you find out?

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Okay.

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Where are we?

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You know?

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And so I, I'm just, I just kind of like

let them lead and let them, I try to

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make them as independent as possible.

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And, and I think we talk about money a

ton, like maybe we should talk about other

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things, but that's just what they get.

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Like, you know, if they're, if I

was a plumber, they would just hear

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about, you know, plumbing all day.

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So that's just what they

get with me and my job.

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Um, But I think you don't have to

take it to that extreme, but I think

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that giving your kids the tools to

make the decisions on their own is

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really important because it allows

them to make mistakes on their own.

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It allows them to buy something really

cheap at Claire's and have their neck

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necklace break and be devastated.

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And it allows you to have

conversations of like, well, we

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can bring it back to the store.

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We can get your money back or we can

say, we're not going to shop there.

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Like it lets you have So

many conversations around it.

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Lesa Koski: Yeah.

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Okay.

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So Kat, I'm so impressed.

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And I want you to know that that's amazing

that you do that because I'm a cobbler.

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I want to make everything perfect.

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And you talked about

your son, like my son.

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Oh my gosh.

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Those little boys, they get.

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Yeah,

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Catherine Collins: it

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Lesa Koski: is hard,

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Catherine Collins: but

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Lesa Koski: it's so much so

that, but I think, and I want

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to say something interesting.

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I think there's a difference between

my adult kids and that little one,

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something changed, but I mean,

something changed, um, And how they

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respond to things or in this world.

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And I can't put a finger on what it is,

but so my adult kids, I coddled them.

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I wanted to fix everything.

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I've had conversations with them.

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Like, okay, you know what guys,

you got to feel bad sometimes.

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Sorry.

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: 00:17:49

I, you know, so we talk about it now

because I wanted to fix everything.

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: 00:17:53

Catherine Collins: But

that's so millennial parents.

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We were like, feel your feelings.

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But our parents were like, get over it.

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Well, mine was like, get over it.

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But I was like, let

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Lesa Koski: me fix

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Catherine Collins: this for you.

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So you don't feel bad.

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Lesa Koski: Yeah.

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: 00:18:04

So just, well, I mean, yeah, yeah, but

it wasn't about making them independent.

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But the good thing was, was those, those

older ones seem like in the time that

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they were raised, that they just got jobs.

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They just paid for things on

their own and they're making it.

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They're amazing.

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They're families.

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Now my younger one, I probably

should have been better, but

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I mean, she's awesome too.

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: 00:18:28

And she's been, she's

kind of an entrepreneur.

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She, instead of getting a job, like

started a, you know, a business

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of taking care of dogs for people.

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And

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Catherine Collins: awesome.

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Lesa Koski: Awesome.

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: 00:18:40

Awesome.

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: 00:18:41

But I, and she's independent, but

she kind of had to fight me on it.

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: 00:18:45

It's interesting.

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You know, like, I can go to the

airport by myself and now she goes

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to college, you know, states away.

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We have to fly to see her.

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: 00:18:54

Um, but I don't know.

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: 00:18:57

I don't know why they turned out, but

I wish I could have done a little bit

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: 00:19:01

more about what you're talking about.

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: 00:19:02

There's probably a good balance

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: 00:19:03

Catherine Collins: in there.

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: 00:19:04

Like I said, I probably, Probably

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: 00:19:05

Lesa Koski: take it too far sometimes.

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: 00:19:07

I don't think so.

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: 00:19:08

Well, so I just think maybe

it was just all those prayers.

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So that's another thing.

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: 00:19:13

If you feel like you're

screwed up, just pray about it.

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: 00:19:16

It will be taken care of.

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: 00:19:17

Exactly.

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Yeah.

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: 00:19:18

So I love that.

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And I think that that is a

wonderful way to teach them.

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: 00:19:23

And I have noticed that with my daughter,

because there was a while when she

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would, um, just be spending all the

time, every little thing she got.

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And then suddenly she went,

Oh, This isn't lasting.

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: 00:19:36

Do I really want 5, 000

Goodwill sweatshirts or do

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: 00:19:40

I want to save for a Kindle?

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: 00:19:41

And so she is figuring that out, but

I think if you can help them so that

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they don't, you know, the earlier,

probably the better and the healthier,

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: 00:19:50

you can talk about it so that it

doesn't have to be something anyone's

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afraid of something that feels icky.

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: 00:19:56

It just is what it is.

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: 00:19:58

Catherine Collins: Yeah, for sure.

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: 00:19:58

I think just all the taboo topics

that parents, the more we can talk

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to our kids about it, the better.

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: 00:20:05

And it sounds like your

kids turned out amazing.

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: 00:20:08

Thank God.

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: 00:20:11

Lesa Koski: Yeah.

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: 00:20:12

Thank God.

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: 00:20:13

So Catherine, I, our time is up

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: 00:20:16

Catherine Collins: and I

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: 00:20:16

Lesa Koski: just want you to know,

I have loved chatting with you.

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: 00:20:19

I think I might have to have you on

again, happy to, to talk about some other

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: 00:20:23

topics and um, one that I can think of is.

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: 00:20:28

I don't know, kind of those women

who are more like my age and

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: 00:20:33

menopausal and how they're doing

through the money, money situation

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: 00:20:38

and feeling good about themselves.

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: 00:20:39

So that's for another time, but I want to

thank you from the bottom of my heart for

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: 00:20:44

taking the time to be on both podcasts.

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: 00:20:47

You're just a doll.

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: 00:20:48

My pleasure.

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: 00:20:48

Thank you so much.

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: 00:20:49

I have loved getting to know you.

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: 00:20:51

Same here.

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: 00:20:52

Thank you so much for having me.

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: 00:20:53

I really appreciate it.

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: 00:20:54

Catherine Collins: Thanks for being here.

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: 00:20:55

You take good care.

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: 00:20:57

You too.

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: 00:20:57

Thank you.

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: 00:20:57

Bye.