Reignite the Spark: Secrets to Lasting Love with Laurie Gerber

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Welcome listeners to Saddle Up Live.

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I'm so excited today.

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I have kind of a big deal here.

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I said I was a little starstruck, but

I've gotten to talk to her on my other

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podcast, doing divorce different.

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So if any of you are wanting to hear more

about dating after divorce, go there.

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But today I have relationship expert,

Lori Gerber here, and we are going to

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talk about how to keep that fire burning.

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I've been in a 32 year marriage.

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Lori's been in one almost as

long and people, she is good.

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She's been on Dr.

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Phil.

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She's been on TV and MTV.

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I think she said A and E and

she's got a wealth of knowledge.

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So.

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Lori, thank you for

being here and welcome.

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Thank you for having me.

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You're such a fun chat.

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I would talk to you all day.

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Well, we could, I mean, I feel

like there are so many topics, but

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today is particularly, Special to

me because I want to keep the fire

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burning in my own marriage, you

know, and I think a lot of people do.

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And so before we really delve

into that, I want to hear your

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story about what led you here.

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Um, and then I really want to get into

it because I think I had a realization

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probably a year or two ago and my

kid now there, I have grandchildren

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and you know, my, my baby's in

college and I had this realization.

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That I didn't put my husband first.

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You know, I put my kids first and

then I, my business was first.

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And then suddenly I was like,

wait a minute, what am I doing?

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And so that's why I think this

is going to be so important.

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And I don't think that I'm alone

in women, my age doing that.

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So anyway, Lori, welcome.

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Thank you for being here.

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Great to be here.

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Thank you.

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Love.

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So watch it so near and dear to my heart.

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Yes.

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And so can you share your story as

to what led you to do this work?

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Okay.

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Let's go back to my young

thirties, about 20 years ago,

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I hire a coach to help

me with my business.

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I'm like you, I love my children and

I love my business and my husband.

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We'll see.

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Okay.

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I, I go to this coach and I ostensibly

want to, you know, increase my business

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and get better work life balance.

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And she.

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encourages me, nay, requires of me

that I must answer questions in every

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single area of my life because she is

assessing a whole person as not, no

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parts of a person can be separated.

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And so I have to say my dream in all

of the areas of my life, including

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love, including body, including health,

including fun, spirituality, uh,

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you know, career, money, everything.

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And then I have to say a current rating.

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And lo and behold, she notices that I

have said that my dream for my marriage is

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that we be deeply connected and intimate,

and my rating is about a four, I think.

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I don't totally remember, but that's

my guess, remembering how it was

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back then, which was not good.

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We had two young kids, now

we have three, Big kids.

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But at the time we had two young

kids and a really good on paper life.

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We were both working for ourselves.

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We had an apartment in Manhattan, you

know, my business was ostensibly growing

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and I, he was handsome and kind and you

know, all, all the things that you'd

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want and everybody would have said,

you know, luckiest girl in the world.

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But.

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I knew the truth, which was

that we were not communicating.

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We were not intimate.

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We were not having sex.

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And we were starting to argue

more and more and more and more.

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In fact, at one point, he said,

if you're going to treat me

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like this, I want a divorce.

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And that is kind of what actually made

me pay attention for the first time.

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And that's after, you know, 10 years of it

kind of slowly, you know, going downhill.

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So my coach warns me if I don't save

my marriage, it's going to really mess

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up all the other areas of my life.

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I'm not, I cannot deny that.

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That sounds true to me.

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So I go, Oh, what do I do?

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She goes, well, tell me why you

don't have that intimate connection.

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And I say, smart Alec that I am, I don't

think he cares much about intimacy.

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And I, uh, he's kind of like a jock.

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I don't think he likes

talking about real matters.

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Right.

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I'm, I married a cute jock, right,

is my, and she's like, that is no,

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I mean, first of all, she knew my

husband and second of all, she was

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like, I've heard this BS before.

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No, no, no, no, no, that is not an answer.

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And do really not have anything better.

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And I'm like, I've tried.

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I had all my excuses.

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And she goes, okay, here's

what you're going to do.

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You're going to go back.

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You're going to sit him down.

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You're going to make it so safe.

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And you're going to read him the dream.

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that you wrote and you're going to ask

him why he thinks you don't have it.

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Why would I have never thought of that?

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Never occurred to me.

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Okay.

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So she thought of it.

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Thank God for coaches.

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Okay.

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So I sit him down.

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You read this dream.

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I'm feeling very vulnerable, but

I'm like going to be a good student

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and get my homework done and

bring an answer back to the coach.

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And at first he does not

want to tell me the answer.

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He's like, we're fine.

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It's going to be okay.

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You know, he's just men

like to say that, right?

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Yeah, they really do.

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Yeah, a lot of the time.

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Yes, but I am not going back

empty handed to my coach.

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And I know we are not going

in a good direction because

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I've heard him say the D word.

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And so I somehow made

it safe enough for him.

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I don't know what I said, but I said

and I was desperate because I was

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not going to go back empty handed.

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Cause I am a good student.

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And I said, please just tell me,

I promise I will not get mad.

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I promise I will listen.

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I promise you won't be in trouble.

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I just really need to

know your perspective.

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Okay.

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And he took a deep breath and a risk and

he goes, okay, Laura, here's the thing.

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My experience with you is that whenever

I try to talk to you, I barely get three

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sentences in before you interrupt me.

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And I get it.

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That works for you and

your friends and whatever.

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But for me, it is like a physical assault.

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I cannot get my train of thinking back.

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I feel so disrespected.

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It's not even on topic.

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Most of the time It's about

if you make it about you.

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I stopped trying to talk to you years ago

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exactly so I uh, I was speechless right I

was like What I wrote in my homework But

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thank you, you know, and I I was cool I

was really proud of myself because I knew

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that was a moment of truth and in that

moment of truth My life passed before my

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eyes, you know It was one of those moments

where I was like, oh my brother said I

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was selfish and I've been called selfish

before and I do interrupt a lot and you

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know, and I wanted to defend myself.

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I felt that you know, that urge

arise to be like, well, you talk

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so slow and I'm helping and I

know what you're going to say.

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And you know, I don't feel like, you

know, the excuse list is so long, but I

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knew I had this choice in that moment.

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And then, and then what flashed

in front of me was, I said, love,

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honor, and cherish till death do us

part in front of everyone I know.

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And I never listened to a

whole thing he had to say.

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Like I couldn't argue.

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He was right.

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I was, I never, I never sat

still and listened to the

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whole thing, whatever it was.

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And that was not love, honor, and cherish.

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And so I was embarrassed.

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I was humbled.

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I was moved.

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I was motivated.

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And I made a promise to him in that

moment, which I knew from my coaching

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would be the right thing to do.

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I said, I will not interrupt you anymore.

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You're right.

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I'm sorry.

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I meant it.

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And I meant it for the first

time, you know, I think it's so

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telling that you're saying this.

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I think I just interrupted you, Lori.

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Sorry.

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Actually, I don't, I don't think

it's a moral thing, honestly.

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But it's interesting because when

you said that a light bulb went

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off in my head and I think I'm like

you, I don't know if that's common.

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Well, let me just say as

women, we are biologically and

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physiologically able to multitask.

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We are able to think our own thoughts

and listen to another person.

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We are able to talk over each

other and hear, I mean, we just

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have different brains than men.

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Men are biologically programmed to hunt a

deer where they're biologically programmed

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to focus on one thing at a time.

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So we're just so different and I

really don't mind being interrupted.

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I, I don't, I can remember what I'm

thinking and listen to what you're saying.

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And I believe I'm going

to get my point across.

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Right.

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So, but that is not how his brain works.

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He is a jock.

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He has a lot of concussions.

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He's extremely intelligent, but

he was also raised by a minister.

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So he speaks, he tells stories and the.

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The moral of the story is at

the end, and I'm like, I want

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the answer at the beginning!

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So, we're so different, he and I.

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And I, but I think a lot of women

are actually fine with that.

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Interruptions and it's not all women,

but I think we are very different.

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So I think this is a problem in a

lot of relationships, not just in a

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conversation, the woman interrupts the

man, but also we interrupt physically.

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Like we, I call it popcorning.

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Like we just like, hi, hi,

can you do this for me?

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Can you say number one,

I'm not customer service.

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Number two, I'm leading

my own life over here.

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Like I'm here existing as a human while

you're thinking of things for me to do.

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Oh my gosh.

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You're like, are you in my head?

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Are you my soul sister?

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Because I get up in the morning and I've

been like praying to get my stuff done,

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and then I jump out of bed and I'm like,

Hey, we gotta like clean that horse

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stop and he's like, uh, good morning.

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Exactly.

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Yes.

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You're not, again, these are trends.

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These are phenomena.

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This is not just you and me.

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I've heard this over and over.

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They're not a lot of new complaints

under the sun in married couples.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So are you kind of saying that

the first thing is to get your

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husband's take on the relationship?

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Is that kind of that really,

that's really just my story, right?

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But I would say write a dream, right?

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Like write it, write a dream.

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Okay.

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Programmed your GPS to where you want to

go and you've told the truth to yourself

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about what you want And if you can't

write a dream, this is interesting, right?

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If you can't write a dream It's probably

because there's so much crap built up that

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you have not expressed effectively And

vice versa that you can't dream anymore.

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You're you're so riddled.

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You can't dream anymore in that case right

what I call a purge which is vomit that

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out for the coach or therapist that you're

going to be working with because You

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need to take that piece by piece and for

most people in long term relationships.

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There are 10 to 30 things on that list

10 to 30 things, including that thing

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you said to my sister, that thing that

happened at our wedding, the thing I

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never told you, the way you smell, kiss.

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Chew, breathe, you know, just the

list is usually, unfortunately,

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10 to 30 things long.

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So if you can start with a

dream, start with a dream.

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If you can't start with a

dream, start with a shit list.

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And don't share the shit

list with him, I'm guessing,

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for your, for your good intuition.

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Correct.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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So then after you write your dream.

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You rate how close you are

to it between one and 10.

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Is that correct?

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Correct.

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And why not?

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Which then turns into

your shit list, right?

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And you might have to sit

on yourself too, right?

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Which is why I would say, interestingly,

which is why I would say it's not

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always the right next thing to do

to go to your partner, because one

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of the things I discovered in doing

that first exercise with my coach is.

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I was completely addicted to sugar.

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I was completely in

love with checking out.

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So any time I would have had after

my work day and dealing with my kids

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went to eating and zoning out to

television instead of to my intimate

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partner who I, but I would love honor

and cherish till death do us part.

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So I don't know if anyone can

relate to that, but I had to

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get right with my own self.

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First really yes Simultaneously in this

case to me approaching him because until

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I quit sugar and I still I eat sugar

But at the time I needed to really detox

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it until I quit sugar to understand its

role in my life and I quit eating to

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anesthetize myself and and keep myself

away and I could not access the part

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of me that wanted to have sex or that

wanted to be intimate or that way again.

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So there's really not one path

that fits everybody's situation.

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That was my, well, and I think to what

I've learned through going through

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really difficult things and it's

interesting that you're bringing this up.

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I, and I think we're very similar.

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I have learned about five

things you need to do.

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You know, when you're going through

a hard time and one of them is that

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community, I have my God that I rely on.

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Um, and, and one of those is eating

well and I don't do sugar either.

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And another thing that I could fall prey

to, and this has sugar in it is wine.

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Yes.

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Give me a glass of wine.

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Very popular treatment for bad marriage.

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Yes.

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And I think recently.

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I haven't had any wine and I've been

so focused on eating well and starting

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to live my best life and going through

really hard things in a different way.

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Yes.

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Um, which is amazing.

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And I just so recommend it for everyone.

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And it took me, I swear it.

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I mean, I know they say 30 days.

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I think it took me six months ago.

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Wow.

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I haven't had wine and I don't want it.

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You know, or whatever it is.

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Yeah, very inspiring

to a lot of listeners.

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I'm sure really just because we

think we need certain things.

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I think I thought I needed that sugar.

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I thought I needed those carbs.

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I, I thought I needed it.

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And it turns out what I needed was

actual intimacy and connection and bodily

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contact, which I had completely forsaken.

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Yes.

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Interesting.

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So interesting.

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So now I feel breastfeeding

is actually not enough.

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Yeah, it kind of hurts

sometimes, even right.

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Well, and you know how, as when you're

a mom in the throes of it, I mean, you

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do kind of feel like I am so darn tired.

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I'll leave me alone.

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I don't need anyone.

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And then, but it's funny, Lori,

because it doesn't end that

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because then the kids are.

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You know, then you're working more, your

kids are in high school, you're racing

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around to sporting events, then they

go to college and you got a grandkid

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popping out over here that you're running.

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You're never not tired.

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Right.

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The excuse.

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If you're a person who likes

to be busy, that excuse is B.

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S.

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and it always will be.

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Yes.

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And and it always is, honestly.

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It always is.

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And, and the way my coach, you know,

pointed that out to me and the way I

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would point it as anyone who's listening

is if you have time for a glass of

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wine, if you have time for any sort of

streaming service, if you, If you are

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making time for social media scrolling,

you have time to revitalize your marriage.

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Period.

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End of story.

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Do not argue with me.

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That is a fact.

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Well, and I have to say too,

Lori, I love your coach.

328

: 00:15:45

Because she pointed out, not

all coaches would do this.

329

: 00:15:48

They would jump into your

career and getting that

330

: 00:15:50

because that's what you wanted.

331

: 00:15:52

Right.

332

: 00:15:52

But she told you your marriage.

333

: 00:15:54

I mean.

334

: 00:15:55

So that took away my sugar.

335

: 00:15:57

Sorry.

336

: 00:15:58

I know coaches are so good at

that, taking away that sugar.

337

: 00:16:03

Uh, but I will tell you when you have

dark chocolate, that's not sweet.

338

: 00:16:06

And boy, that kind of feels a

good little urge in there too.

339

: 00:16:08

There are many workarounds, my loves.

340

: 00:16:11

I know.

341

: 00:16:11

I love it.

342

: 00:16:12

There's lots of things I enjoy, uh,

that don't have to be sugar, but I

343

: 00:16:17

love that she said that because, I

mean, let's face it, that is your core.

344

: 00:16:23

That is.

345

: 00:16:25

That's your stability.

346

: 00:16:26

That's your light.

347

: 00:16:27

Like, why would you not?

348

: 00:16:30

Put everything into that.

349

: 00:16:31

Instead, we keep going everywhere

else thinking it's just there.

350

: 00:16:36

Why would you not is there's

a simple answer to that.

351

: 00:16:38

And we call it the chicken and the brat.

352

: 00:16:40

So why, why would you not is fear, right?

353

: 00:16:43

I was afraid of intimacy.

354

: 00:16:45

I'll admit it.

355

: 00:16:46

And I didn't fricking want to, right.

356

: 00:16:48

I liked my donuts and bagels.

357

: 00:16:50

And yes, right.

358

: 00:16:52

I just didn't act.

359

: 00:16:53

So the brat and the chicken were

worthy opponents until I had a coach.

360

: 00:16:58

They won Every time they want

every inner argument until I had a

361

: 00:17:03

coach yelling a better idea, right?

362

: 00:17:07

Right that you ended up believing.

363

: 00:17:08

Okay.

364

: 00:17:08

Now I just have to ask you this.

365

: 00:17:09

You had said you had a fear of intimacy.

366

: 00:17:11

Tell me about that.

367

: 00:17:13

If you don't mind.

368

: 00:17:14

Yeah.

369

: 00:17:14

Well, that's, I feel like that's a whole

other podcast, but at the end of the

370

: 00:17:18

day, I just preferred to get my sensual

needs met through food and maybe cuddling

371

: 00:17:25

with my kid than Because opening myself

up to my husband would have meant.

372

: 00:17:32

learning how to have sex again,

learning how to make it feel good,

373

: 00:17:35

actually being present in my body.

374

: 00:17:39

It's just, it's just harder for me.

375

: 00:17:41

Right.

376

: 00:17:41

I know.

377

: 00:17:42

I get that.

378

: 00:17:43

I get that.

379

: 00:17:44

Of, I think my lineage and

my, my personal history.

380

: 00:17:48

And again, I, I could, I could connect

some dots, but I think at the end of the

381

: 00:17:52

day, there was a certain point where I was

like, I'll use my body to, Find a husband

382

: 00:17:58

and keep a husband, but I never thought

my body could be a place for sensual or

383

: 00:18:04

sexual pleasure Like I just never even

right I just bring you closer to someone

384

: 00:18:09

Yeah I just never even opened that can

of worms because it just feels safer and

385

: 00:18:13

more comfortable to do what I know which

is push Myself at work be a good mom.

386

: 00:18:17

Huh take care of my kids keep this

marriage on track like a business, you

387

: 00:18:21

know Yeah And it just was a whole realm.

388

: 00:18:24

I had not, it was the unknown.

389

: 00:18:27

It was okay.

390

: 00:18:28

And again, I'm with you.

391

: 00:18:31

Are most women, I mean, am I just like

matching you or is this like Pretty

392

: 00:18:37

popular and it goes back to what I what I

was saying on the other podcast if anybody

393

: 00:18:41

has watched that one or listened to that

one We oftentimes people sell out to make

394

: 00:18:47

a family right people do not Intimacy

and connection do not explore their

395

: 00:18:51

sexuality, especially at our age Right.

396

: 00:18:54

It wasn't exactly in vogue quite yet.

397

: 00:18:57

We weren't totally liberated.

398

: 00:18:58

Right.

399

: 00:18:59

And so we really could have gotten into

a relationship, hooked that, you know,

400

: 00:19:03

partner, had those kids been extremely

busy with career and kids, which by

401

: 00:19:08

the way, this is the first few decades

where that's even a thing, right?

402

: 00:19:12

They're like, this is new to

do and kids and keep a husband.

403

: 00:19:16

Like that is so new.

404

: 00:19:17

We don't know shit about it.

405

: 00:19:20

And so it really is very possible

that A whole gaggle of gals really

406

: 00:19:27

have missed this opportunity, right?

407

: 00:19:29

Unless somebody turned

them on to it, right?

408

: 00:19:31

Unless they had a super hippie mom

or they took a course with them or

409

: 00:19:36

they have a girlfriend down the block

that, you know, is a sex worker.

410

: 00:19:41

I was like, yeah, there's, there's all

kinds of possibilities, but it does seem

411

: 00:19:45

like it's the exception, not the norm.

412

: 00:19:47

Yeah.

413

: 00:19:49

It's figured out how to

actually enjoy her body.

414

: 00:19:52

Right.

415

: 00:19:53

Have a fun physical

relationship with their partner.

416

: 00:19:56

Yeah.

417

: 00:19:57

And I don't know if this is on those

lines, but what kind of opened my

418

: 00:20:00

eyes to it, I have this darling

friend and You know, she has a

419

: 00:20:05

kiddo going up to, to college.

420

: 00:20:07

And I said, Oh, how are you doing?

421

: 00:20:10

You know, that's hard.

422

: 00:20:11

I mean, that just killed me every time

someone went to college and, you know,

423

: 00:20:15

she said, Oh, she goes, my hubby and I,

he's always been my number one, you know?

424

: 00:20:22

And I like listened to her and

she was like, I'll be fine.

425

: 00:20:26

And.

426

: 00:20:27

And I was like, wow,

she's so, she's awesome.

427

: 00:20:31

I mean, there's so many other little

lessons that she's given me, but

428

: 00:20:35

that's where I kind of went, huh?

429

: 00:20:37

Do you know, there was a New

York times article, I think.

430

: 00:20:40

About 15 or 20 years ago.

431

: 00:20:42

And it really made a splash at the time.

432

: 00:20:44

I don't know if you remember this, but it

really, it was someone saying, Hey ladies,

433

: 00:20:48

why don't you put your husband first?

434

: 00:20:49

Not the kids.

435

: 00:20:50

And it was like, wait, what?

436

: 00:20:53

I thought we were supposed

to put the kids first.

437

: 00:20:56

Yes.

438

: 00:20:56

Do you, you know, the pendulum.

439

: 00:20:59

Swings.

440

: 00:20:59

Um, I personally think you can do both.

441

: 00:21:01

I really do.

442

: 00:21:03

Uh, so that's my great hope, but I really,

I remember hearing that and reading

443

: 00:21:08

that and thinking, she's got a point.

444

: 00:21:11

Yeah.

445

: 00:21:11

Right.

446

: 00:21:11

Like we're not saving for long term,

it's like not saving for retirement.

447

: 00:21:14

Like what, what are you doing?

448

: 00:21:17

It's not that bright.

449

: 00:21:18

No, no.

450

: 00:21:20

And so that was really eyeopening.

451

: 00:21:21

So that I hope this has gone, this

has flown by, but Lori, what I

452

: 00:21:27

hope women can get out of this.

453

: 00:21:30

is how important your marriage is.

454

: 00:21:33

It is the thing, it is your,

what you have to stand on.

455

: 00:21:38

And I know I always love when someone's

going through a divorce and I want

456

: 00:21:42

them to kind of try, you know, are

you sure you don't want to stay

457

: 00:21:46

married and work a little harder?

458

: 00:21:47

I always tell them to work on themselves.

459

: 00:21:50

It seems like if you kind of start

there, like you said, with that dream

460

: 00:21:54

and then invite the other person

in to help you discover things.

461

: 00:21:58

I think that's a really good start.

462

: 00:22:00

I agree.

463

: 00:22:02

So listeners, if you want to get

ahold of Lori, we'll have all your

464

: 00:22:07

information in the show notes.

465

: 00:22:09

Um, what's the best way for them to

reach out just to go to your website and.

466

: 00:22:14

Yeah.

467

: 00:22:14

And you have to dig around the website

is geared towards daters, but if

468

: 00:22:18

you dig around into my offerings,

you will see that the actually the

469

: 00:22:22

relationship retreat work is there.

470

: 00:22:24

The couples.

471

: 00:22:25

Work is there and the private

coaching work is there too.

472

: 00:22:28

So just Dig around on the website till

you find what you need Well, and i'm

473

: 00:22:32

gonna dig around on your website And

then I want to have you back because

474

: 00:22:36

I love everything you're sharing

and I so appreciate you being here.

475

: 00:22:40

Lori.

476

: 00:22:40

Thank you You are so welcome.

477

: 00:22:43

You take yeah, take good care